prodigy | Thanksgiving

What do you suggest as an alternative, though? The thing is, it's not my or your holiday to like or redeem, given neither of us is Native/Indian/First Nations. You can come up with what seem to you like "acceptable" alternatives all you like but the fact is there are plenty of actual people insulted and wounded by the holiday to whom a "diet Thanksgiving" with some token solemnity about Native people and a neutered white-America-friendly idea of thankfulness ignoring the holiday's bloody history would be an even bigger insult. It's not yours to forgive. Nor is it mine. You can't set a generic 'holiday festival' on the 25th of December with all the trappings of Christmas and claim it has nothing to do with Christianity and non-Christians shouldn't complain about being excluded. You can't erase the past. You can't divorce Thanksgiving from the Pilgrim myth and the reality of American jingoism and Manifest Destiny and the millions of murders and brutalizations of native people.

White Canadians and First Nations Canadians tend to tell different stories about how "chill" Canada is, I find. But as I'm neither First Nations nor Canadian, I can't speak for them.

There are plenty of harvest festivals left in the world that don't take active or passive pride in the genocide of a continent of people -- why is your own personal enjoyment of holiday food more important than that?

(For the record, I don't particularly celebrate holidays of American patriotism in general, including the Fourth of July. I don't personally subscribe to the concept of nationalism. But I understand Independence Day and national identity mean a lot to a lot of people for a lot of reasons. Thanksgiving, however, is just a giant turkey-stuffed dance on Indian graves, and I can't endorse it in good conscience.)

I guess I've always just thought that the problem with the holiday isn't people sitting around eating turkey so much as the nationalistic mythos we've attached to it and the way it's used to indoctrinate the young. I'm unfamiliar with calls to abolish the holiday outright; I was responding directly to Sage's comment as opposed to any broader idea about the holiday. It a good idea, but I'll be honest and say that I probably won't be able to let go of my personal nostalgia of the holiday and my desire to be with my family on this day.

I missed part of this!

White Canadians and First Nations Canadians tend to tell different stories about how "chill" Canada is, I find. But as I'm neither First Nations nor Canadian, I can't speak for them.

I think the implication here is that I was parroting back the opinion of a white Canadian? My comment was very vague, because I don't think it's fair to say that the opinion of a single First Nations woman is representative of all First Nations people, and I didn't want to present my comment as "well if one First Nations person says it's okay than it must be". I mentioned it because it was, to me, an interesting comment, and I thought there might be a slight chance that someone else would have further insight. It's not exactly a vast readership here on one lone journal on Dreamwidth, but you never know.

There are plenty of harvest festivals left in the world that don't take active or passive pride in the genocide of a continent of people -- why is your own personal enjoyment of holiday food more important than that?

Shit, do I really come across as someone who's trying to say that my enjoyment of holiday food is more important than recognizing the reality of history? I'm trying to verbalize my issues with the holiday while acknowledging my conflicted relationship with it. It's an ongoing process of reflection and reevaluation, and obviously I've got a long way to go.

I think the implication here is that I was parroting back the opinion of a white Canadian? My comment was very vague, because I don't think it's fair to say that the opinion of a single First Nations woman is representative of all First Nations people, and I didn't want to present my comment as "well if one First Nations person says it's okay than it must be". I mentioned it because it was, to me, an interesting comment, and I thought there might be a slight chance that someone else would have further insight. It's not exactly a vast readership here on one lone journal on Dreamwidth, but you never know.

I definitely don't mean to imply that First Nations people have a monolith opinion either. Or that anyone does, honestly. It's more that I have an attempted policy, "if there's a significant controversy over whether X thing harms other people, and I'm not one of the people harmed by X thing, then it's better if I steer clear of the minefield and leave it for the actual people involved to reclaim or reject as they see fit." I know that I and the rest of European-descended North America have more or less done nothing but profit by European conquest of Native land, so it'd be in poor taste for me to pass positive judgment. If other people with more of a stake in it want to do so, that's their prerogative. Me, I think I'm better off putting in doleful little reminders of history where I can fit them in -- I think the U.S. has enough enthusiastic Turkey Day celebrators as it is, it's not going to miss me from its ranks.

Basically, is it likely that a large number of people might be hurt by my not celebrating Thanksgiving? Probably not. Mainstream U.S. traditions can fend for themselves, I'm pretty sure. I celebrate Christmas, but I don't think it needs defending in the States. I don't know if anyone would be directly harmed by my celebrating the holiday, but the possibility's higher than the other way around.

I'm not much of a fighter and I don't give up a lot of things for the benefit of people in the world, not nearly as much as I should. I still support a lot of exploitative industries with my money. I still shop at places like Wal-Mart and Target if I'm scrimping. But I figure I'd be incredibly remiss if I couldn't at least do this much.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I don't mean to cast aspersions on your priorities or how seriously you take it all, I'm sure you do and it's a complicated issue. I'm merely stating the stakes as I perceive them, and it's a pretty grim subject.

I think we essentially agree on most of this, but I always enjoy reading your commentary on social issues because you always have something unique to say or a unique way of saying it. I actually feel like I should comment on more of your "serious business" posts in an attempt to squeeze more words from your brain.

Thanks! I'm not an expert on anything, but I try to make sense of what I learn from other people and I know a lot of people with much more perspective than myself. It breaks up the monotony between the long wordcount trudge and SyFy Original Movie marathons. :D

Thanksgiving

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